Steve: Hi, Jill.
Jill: Hi, Steve, how are you?
Steve: I'm good, thank you. Jill: Good.
Steve: You know, when I say I am good -- people say that nowadays -- but, really we shouldn't say that. You should say Steve & Jill: I am fine, thank you. Steve: I am fine, thank you.
Jill: Yes.
Steve: It seems that 'well' and 'good' and 'fine' and it's all getting mixed up. Jill: Yes.
Steve: Today, we are going to listen to Part 2 of the discussion that I had with Fraser some time ago about looking for work. There are a lot of interesting phrases used here and we are going to talk about them.
( Here is the interview.
Steve: When you say job sites, you mean the websites that advertise jobs?
Fraser: Yeah, stuff like Workopolis. com, Job Shark, Monster, all the main ones that you'll generally see around. They're pretty easy to find. Even the not-so-publicized ones, they're virtually all the same, and they'll spit out a bunch of jobs. You may think you're the perfect candidate, but you won't even hear back from them. So it's a frustrating method. I mean, I have had interviews through going through those sites. They've been sort of few and far between. Generally, it's tough to get a read on companies. Even-you know, they may still have a website, but if you don't know anything prior about the company, you might go and it may sound like the greatest job or the greatest company in the world, and then you go down there and you can be disappointed. Steve: Now, when you do apply for a job, I guess you send in your standard covering letter and resume. Is there anything in particular you try to do?
Fraser: I try to specialize the cover letter. The resume generally stays the same. The cover letter-you know, if it's an outdoor position maybe I'm applying for, I can sort of talk about that, my history involved in the outdoors. But, you know, if it's a sales position, and you want to talk about how you can relate with customers and experience-wise, you have that in that field. But, yeah, you just want to specialize the cover letters, I think.
Steve: What, in your experience, where you have had interviews, what sorts of things are the interviewers normally looking for? What sorts of questions do they ask? ) Steve: Our listeners had the opportunity to hear the interview that I made with Fraser who came to see me and talked about his problems in finding work. And, we've selected, together, a few phrases that we're going to talk about to help people. Steve: Um, I selected the first one that I selected is 'stuff like'. Now, that's a bit colloquial, but people are gonna hear it. Our advanced learners, give me some of your thoughts about how common this is and how good a phrase it is.
Jill: It's very common and I think the phrase 'things like' Steve: Right. Jill: means the same thing Steve: Right. Jill: and they're both used often; shouldn't be used in writing and if you can find a better word it's a good idea to do so. But, it is very common to say oh, stuff like, stuff like this, stuff like that, things like this, things like 'things of that nature. So here, stuff like workopolis.com, Jobshark, Monster they all have something in common. So, that's why you can say 'stuff like' or 'things like'. Steve: Aha, aha. Okay.
I'm sure Fraser, if he were writing, because here we talk about his job interviews, he would never write on his resume or in any formal writing he would never use stuff like. Jill: Right.
Steve: Like, what are you interested in? I'm interested in stuff like Jill: running, jogging, Steve: running and other stuff. Jill: Yeah, yeah. No.
Steve: It's very much colloquial and to be avoided. Even in a formal business meeting it's not a powerful word to use. Jill: No, no.
Steve: No.
Jill: If it's just a you're just having a conversation with friends, family, whatever, no big deal. But, yeah, in a more formal setting, probably you should avoid it.
Steve: Okay.
Jill: They're pretty easy to find. So, Steve: you know, I just thought that the word 'pretty', on the surface, again, if someone hasn't seen this word before, in this use pretty means nice looking. Jill: Right.
Steve: So, what's that got to do with 'quite' because pretty means quite Jill: quite. It's quite easy to find. Steve: quite easy to find. So, as in every language, words gradually add on different meanings that may not be related to their original meaning. So, here, I just thought 'pretty easy to find'. 'Easy to find' is a phrase that's useful and it's quite easy to find; pretty easy to find. Jill: And, I think in English, in particular, there are so many words that have more than one, more than two meanings even. So, it's important to know the different meanings, the different words. Steve: You know, just on that subject, we could say 'awfully easy to find'. We may not say awfully easy, but 'awfully' from the meaning awful; terrible. Even the word 'terribly' has the meaning of very, Jill: Exactly. Steve: under certain circumstances.
Jill: Yes, yes, even though the original -- when you would normally think of it -- it would mean something negative, something bad. You can use it to really emphasize something.
Steve: Right.
Like, nowadays, there's a very popular word, 'awesome'. Jill: Yes.
Steve: Awesome. Awe is like Steve & Jill: awe inspiring. Steve: Exactly, which means? Fear, almost. It's wonderment, but fear, Jill: Yeah. Steve: almost in a negative sense.
Jill: Yeah.
Steve: So, we have to be very careful when we are reading in a foreign language. I find that I read the words and I get the word-for-word translation, but then I have to be a little flexible to see just how are these words being used in this context. Actually, the next one is much the same. He talks about these different job search websites and then he says They're virtually all the same. Jill: So, they're almost all the same. Steve: Right.
Jill: There's very little difference between these different sites, virtually. Steve: But, the word 'virtually' I mean, we talk about the Jill: virtual world. You know, being on the web and, um, doing things virtually.
Steve: Right.
And, it almost has a sense of not real.
Jill: Not real.
Steve: Right.
Jill: Yes, exactly.
Steve: It's a virtual environment. Jill: Yes.
It's made up; make believe. Steve: A virtual class or made up; make believe.
Steve: So, here again, it's so important to learn words within the context of a phrase and then in a larger context. Again, you know, at thelinguist.com we say save these phrases and these words. Like the word 'virtually', if you save the word virtually you'll get many examples that you have already been listening to then you will remember where you heard it or saw it the first time and so your sense of the full scope of that word will gradually increase. Jill: Aha.
That's right. Steve: Okay.
Jill: Ah, They'll spit out a bunch of jobs. So, basically, they will generate a list.
Steve: Much better. If you were writing that's what you would say. Jill: Right.
Steve: But, Fraser was talking to me very casually, Jill: Right. Steve: so he spit out. And, I think we can understand the imagery there -- that it's generating; spitting out; it's generating. Jill: Producing.
Steve: Yeah.
Jill: Giving you a lot of.
Steve: That's right. And, a 'bunch of', again, is one of these words like, you know, 'stuff like'. It's not a very refined word, but it's a bunch. So, it's a package. Jill: Many; more than one.
Steve: It's a heap. Jill: It's a heap. Steve: It's a heap. Jill: And, I think we do use that all the time just in common, Steve: Right. Jill: everyday speech.
Steve: Yup.
Jill: Then there's 'hear back from them'. You won't often hear back from them. So, they won't respond. Steve: Right.
Jill: Often, you will never Steve: Exactly. And, here again, it's the sense that if you apply to a company that's advertised on one of these websites -- what Fraser is saying -- very often, they don't answer Jill: Right. Steve: because they get so many applications. But, instead of saying, But, you won't get an answer from them he says 'you won't hear back from them', which is, again, a bit of an image there of you'there won't be any voice coming at you because, in any case, he's not talking about somebody saying something to you or calling you on the phone, necessarily, but even a Jill: a reply of any sort. Steve: reply of any kind.
Jill: Yeah.
Steve: You won't hear back from them. Jill: Yes.
Steve: Okay.
Jill: Then there's, oh, They've been sort of few and far between. Steve: Right.
That's a commonly used well, the 'sort of' we kind of covered. That's a very Jill: Kind of. Steve: people use 'sort of', 'kind of', I mean like Jill: fillers. Steve: fillers; exactly. That's what it is. Jill: They really don't mean anything. Steve: It is just kind of to give you a little more time to think.
Jill: Yeah.
Steve: But, 'few and far between' is very commonly used and I think for a non-native speaker that would be a nice phrase to use. It sounds very sort of idiomatic and, basically, all it means is few.
Jill: Right.
Steve: Or, or Jill: not often. Steve: Not often.
Jill: You know, you will it's not very often that they will reply. Steve: By the way, we should clarify one thing, in English there are a number of words that can be pronounced more than one way. Jill says 'often' and I say 'offen'. Jill: 'Offen'; yeah. I say 'offen' sometimes; it just kind of depends. Steve: Well, I'm sure. It's like 'neither' or 'nither'. I think I say both.
Jill: Yeah.
Steve: So, this must'all of this must be terribly confusing for people who are trying to learn English. So, they say who am I gonna copy? Am I gonna copy Jill? Am I gonna copy Steve? But, if I copy them, they say it two or three different ways themselves. So, that's just too bad. Jill: So, I think that would suggest that people don't have to be so rigid Steve: Right. Jill: in thinking that they have to imitate one person exactly Steve: Right. Jill: to have the correct pronunciation because you know, even within Canada and within the states, you will hear so many different Steve: Right. Jill: types of accents.
Steve: But, I would say though, Jill, that I agree with your point that people should not be so uptight about even about their own accent, if they have, you know, a non-native accent. But, by the same token, if they find a person whose intonation, whose voice, whose way of saying things that they like, whether it be Jill or Kate or Mark or anybody.
Jill: Yup.
Steve: or somebody with an Australian accent or a Singaporean accent, it really doesn't matter. But, if they're comfortable with that then they should really try to imitate that because I think we need a model. Now, if they listen to someone else who's a little different, don't let that disturb you. But, try to model yourself on one accent.
Jill: Yeah.
Steve: I found when I was learning French, if I was in Paris I might speak a little more like a Parisian. If I went down to, you know, Marseille I might speak more with a southern accent. So, you are inevitably influenced, but you kind of have to pick one that you're gonna model yourself on. But, be aware of the fact that there will be a variety.
Steve: Okay.
Here's a few more idioms. It's tough to do something. It's tough. Jill: It's hard. Steve: It's hard. It's difficult. Jill: It's difficult. Steve: It's tough. Jill: Yup.
Steve: And, if you were writing you'd probably use the word 'difficult'. Jill: Difficult.
Steve: Yeah.
And, I think, too, for a non-native speaker, air on the side of the more formal word.
Jill: Aha.
Steve: Okay.
Then he says 'to get a read on companies'. What does that mean?
Jill: To 'to get an impressio. To 'to, um, to know what they're thinking. Steve: Exactly.
Jill: It's hard to know. You don't -- you're kind of always wondering. Steve: We often use the word 'read' in that sense. Jill: To read people.
Steve: Read people. Read people's minds. Read people's faces. We're reading it implies we're trying to get information sort of beyond, beyond what appears on the surface. Jill: through signs.
So, maybe Steve: Pardon? Jill: through signs.
Steve: Yeah.
Jill: So, maybe facial expressions or something, Steve: Right. Jill: not words.
Steve: Right.
So, here he talks about to get a read on companies. So that, here again -- something that happens quite often in English -- what is originally a verb becomes a noun and it goes the other way, too. What was originally a noun has become a verb. Okay, but here, we get a read on companies. Okay.
Steve: What else does he say?
Jill: And, the next one is 'know anything prior about the company'. Steve: Aha. That's a little bit unusual; but, 'prior' means prior to the interview. Jill: Beforehand; yeah.
Steve: Beforehand; prior. So, again, Fraser is saying if you're gonna' go into an interview try and learn about the company before you get there. Jill: Yeah.
I think I think his sentence here is a little bit strange.
Steve: A little bit strange, but there will be strange constructions.
Jill: Yeah, and you still need to be able to do the meaning 'to get the meaning' Steve: Exactly. Jill: to get the meaning of the sentence out of it, so.
Jill: Um, and then the next one is your standard covering letter and resume. And I think that often people would say 'cover' letter. So, covering letter or cover letter Steve: Right. Jill: both mean the same thing -- your standard, your regular, your average cover letter and resume.
Steve: I mean here, the reference is to the idea that it's something that you, if you're applying for a job you have to send out hundreds and hundreds of these, so you would have a basic standard covering letter and that is in contrast then to Steve: The next phrase is 'anything in particular'. Is there anything in particular?
Jill: Something specific or something that is special that you want to mention.
Steve: Above the ordinary.
Jill: Above the ordinary.
Steve: Beyond the standard.
Jill: Yes, yes.
Steve: So, it's something in particular. Jill: Yes.
Steve: Okay.
Steve: I think the next one I'd go on to is How can you relate with customers? To relate with people?I think we'd normally say relate to people. Jill: Yes.
I think I would, too. Yes.
Steve: It's interesting that prepositions cause a lot of difficulty for people. But, even with English speakers, we sometimes are not always Jill: accurate. Steve: accurate in our use of prepositions.
Jill: But, yeah, I would say you relate to people.
Steve: Relate to people.
Jill: Yeah.
Steve: But, I can see that. Here, he's not I want to talk about how you can relate with customers. So, Fraser is saying, beyond his, you know, academic qualifications, he has to create this impression that he has an ability to communicate well with people, to relate with people, to relate to people. So, it's okay, I think, that use. Steve: I think that more or less covers it. We will have lots of opportunity to talk about this content item, which is from our Library at www.thelinguist.com. I think it's an interesting one because everyone, at some point -- or most people at some point in their adult life -- have to apply for a job. Jill: That's right. Steve: And, so here we have a situation with Fraser who is, of course, a native speaker who is going through this difficult period of looking for a job. We know there are many immigrants to English speaking countries and for them it can sometimes be more stressful because it's not in their native language. So, this content is available at our Library at The Linguist www.thelinguist.com. We hope you will go there, listen to this content item and then listen to our discussion, which, I hope, provides a little bit of value added. Okay.
And, remember to work on your words and phrases, to save them in our system and, hopefully, this will help you achieve your language goals.
Steve: Jill, anything you want to add?
Jill: Ah, no, just that we'll be continuing to talk about this content item in future podcasts so, look for them. Steve: And, we're gonna stay with this particular interview for a while, but we are also interested in hearing from either member of The Linguist or other people about the kind of content or what they would like to see in these podcasts. Okay.
Jill: Alright, until next time.
Steve: Thank you. Bye, bye.
Jill: Bye, bye.
