This evening I am sitting here with my good friend, Buddy Smith. Once a month Buddy and a few other friends and I get together and solve the world's problems over Chinese Food. And I know that Buddy is a man of many interests, but I've never asked you this, Buddy, were you born in Vancouver? No, I was born in Calgary. My parents moved to Vancouver when I was 6 years old. So I've lived here now for 67 years. 67 years! That's longer than I've been around. Yes I'm sure. And have you always lived in the same part of Vancouver?
No. My parents moved to Kerrisdale when we moved to Vancouver and I lived there until I got married when I was 23 years old. And I continued to live in Kerrisdale for the next 5 years, but built a home in West Vancouver and lived there for the next 20 years. Then, when our children grew up and were leaving home, we had quite a large home there, we sold it and moved back to Vancouver where I lived for the next 23 years. And now I'm living in West Vancouver temporarily, while building a new house in Vancouver. And I guess Vancouver has changed a lot in the years that you have been living here?
Vancouver has changed incredibly, I guess like every place. Not unique to Vancouver. Yes, it's changed a great deal. I guess this becomes subjective, but has it, from your point of view, changed for the better, for the worse, or it's just changed. I think Vancouver has changed for the better. I guess that a person of my generation would say generally that things have changed for the worse because, you know, I remember a simpler time, when life seemed to be a little simpler and so on. But I think that you're right, it's very subjective, and of course one has memories which are not very accurate, sometimes, about how things were. I think Vancouver has changed for the better. I like the cosmopolitan nature of Vancouver which was a very small, insular town when I was growing up and indeed when I was a young man. But I think it's a cosmopolitan city today and vibrant, in spite of our current economic situation, and I like that. Do you think, this is again a bit of a loaded question but, are people in general more tolerant of diversity today than they were 50 years ago, let's say. There's no question they are. Absolutely. Look, when I was a youngster, I happen to be Jewish, and when I was a youngster there wasn't a major golf club or business club in Vancouver that would accept anybody but white, Anglo-Saxon protestant. And today, of course, that's not the case. Just look at the complexion of the city. It's wonderful! You know it's interesting I had a similar experience growing up in Montreal and I certainly remember that, even today sometimes you get this, that if your name isn't an English sounding name then the question is, "Where are you from?" kind of thing. I think we've gotten past that. I personally find it quite interesting that the hockey team that we're sending to the Olympics in Salt Lake City to represent Canada in the most Canadian of games, has people with names from Africa, Asia, everywhere in Europe, and that's really, I guess what has happened to Canada. And yet we're all still Canadians. So the definition of Canadian I think been expanded.
Absolutely. I think that the definition of Canadian has nothing to do with race or religion or past culture. It's got to do with - it's kind of ephemeral in a way - and I'm very happy and proud to be a Canadian because I think that, with whatever our problems are, we seem to be trying to cope with those problems in a rational way, usually I think, in a way that's less divisive than others perhaps, and certainly in a way that is not confrontational. Now I know that you have been involved in a particular area of activity which is partly economic and related to people in the Jewish community which you have mentioned to me before. Maybe you can explain a little bit about that organization.
Sure. I'm involved in an organization called the Hebrew Assistance Association which is a free-loan society. That means that, instead of just giving money to people, we lend money to people interest free, with very, very low payments, and these loans are made to help people settle themselves. For example, most of our loans are made to immigrant Jews from all over the world and they are made for the purpose of people helping them to make a living here, helping them to get settled here. So, we had, you know, for awhile, many Jews coming from Russia and there were people who were shoemakers who wanted to try and set up a shoemaker shop here so we would lend them the money for some of the tools and equipment he needed. Other people who had to finish school and needed a computer we would lend them money for a computer. Other people who were ready to look for a job but, you know in this city you really need a car, and so they didn't have a car and needed money to help them do that. So for a whole variety of reasons including education, we started this program. We collected money from the community and today we got capital of about $800,000. We lend out amounts of up to $4,500 to an individual and they can pay that back at the rate of $25 per thousand per month. So it's a low payment and if they have trouble with that, we reduce it, you know, we don't have any bad loans, by the way. Is that right, you haven't had one bad loan? We had one bad loan because a student was killed in an automobile accident, poor guy. But, yes, we don't have bad loans. I mean people are paying for this? The fascinating thing is that, most of the people that are immigrants that come to us, come to us as soon as they come here, you know within a month or two, and they don't speak English very well at all, sometimes not at all. And, we keep in touch with these folks, and it's amazing how, when they get involved in the community and have to start making a living, and realize that if they're going to get anywhere at all they have to speak English, it's amazing how quickly they learn and those that have made the effort really do very well. How long has this organization been in existence?
Well, in it's present state, it's been in existence for about 22 or 23 years here. However, it's an old, old system amongst the Jewish communities of the world. And so there was a previous one that got started here in the early 1900's and I think it broke up about 1940 or 41 and the same holds true in communities all over the place. And we've had, by the way, other communities come to us asking how we do it and so on, so that they can do the same in their own communities. Now, it's a wonderful organization except in this regard. I believe that we should now be expanding our horizons not limiting this to lending money to people of the Jewish faith or Jewish background.
Has that been discussed in your organization?
It has and it's a very difficult discussion because, of course, all the money has come from the Jewish community and so people feel there is a very special requirement then to only provide help to people who are Jews. I, however and a few others like me, think that we've gone beyond that now and that we should, I think we should be expanding this, in fact, to provide loans to immigrants, especially, from all over the place. And because it's difficult to do that on a sort of province-wide basis, I think we need smaller geographic areas and people from various communities to take part in this even if the Jewish capital is the first capital that's used. But surely there would be an opportunity then to expand the source of capital from these other communities?
There's no question there would eventually be and absolutely so. Furthermore, I think too that it's that kind of thing that can bring these diverse communities closer together. So anyway it's a little job that I've taken on to try and convince 22 board members. And if the 22 board members or a majority of them get convinced then to try and speak to some of the Jewish organizations in the hope that we can get their backing as well.
I mean it's so true in our society that there's so many different layers of communities that we belong to. We belong to a community which might be based on a religion, which might be based on a cultural origin. But at the same time, we belong to a community where we live, the district where we live. There might be community of common interests, among accountants or lawyers, business community or sports. There's so many different layers at which we have communities. And it's so important to have these communities because we aren't individuals entirely isolated from each other. There are so many different ways in which we interact. I mean that would be a wonderful initiative to see that expanded.
Well, I haven't been very successful yet. But I'm still trying and I hope that I will meet with some success. Where is the limit? For example, if say an entrepreneur needed money for a business venture.
Yes we do that. But our maximum loan is $4,500. I mean we have to have a maximum of that sort because, our capital, as I say is, you know, pretty good, at $800,000, but it's nevertheless small. And once it gets beyond that too, if an entrepreneur has a good idea, then he should be able to go to a commercial bank to get that financing.
Yes, especially if he has a little money from us in advance. Also in that regard, we have a lot of expertise in our community that we help people with. You know we have accountants that help them keep their books, and show them how to do books and so on in a small business. We try to be more than financial help.
And the Jewish community here - you mentioned there were a lot of people from Russia. Is that still the major source of new immigrants?
No actually, immigration at the moment is not great among Jews. I guess the main source of immigration at the moment is Israel. We all know that the situation in Israel is dicey and touchy and difficult. And a large number of actually very, very highly education and talented Israelis are leaving Israel.
Now, are these people who have lived in Israel for a long time? Or are they people who came from Eastern Europe, spent a year or two in Israel, and want to get out.
They're actually people who came from Russia initially to Israel. But recently or?
Oh recently, you know, in the last 10 years. But there's also a large number of sabras, those are people who were born in Israel. I mean, one of the very large companies in Vancouver was started a sabra, by the name of, um hum? The name of the company is Creo, You know who Creo is? Yes? And Dan Gelbart is the guy's name. And a very, very bright guy. He came here about 25 years ago and went to work for MacDonald Dettwiler and so that's happening. As a matter of fact, I think that Israel is going to become much more of a middle-eastern, country, because so many of those Jews who came from Europe are becoming dissatisfied and leaving.
Really? And I would imagine, as well, you have immigrants from South America; Argentina is in a lot of trouble.
Well, I haven't noticed any from Argentina yet. But, at one time there were a lot of Jews who came here from Chile, but they didn't need our help. Right. And how about South Africa? I think there's a fair number from South Africa. A lot come from South Africa, but they have not needed our help either.
So it's mostly the Eastern Europeans and the Israelis? Mainly the Eastern Europeans. And then we had quite a large number that came from the former Yugoslavia when it was in such terrible turmoil.
Maybe one final point again, a little bit getting on some politically difficult terrain here, but what is the state of relations, or are there relations between the Jewish community and the Muslim community.
I don't know of any relationship. I don't know anything about the Muslim community; how big it is, how widespread it is. I mean, just nothing.
It would be nice, at least in a setting like Canada where there are so many other things that draw us together, if some of these different communities could find areas of common interest, and areas where they can work together. Because this is a world where there's so much conflict? Steve, it would be wonderful. But, I don't see it happening in the near term at all because there's such terrible hatred in the Middle East; I mean it is absolutely appalling. And a lot of it is very understandable too, you know. But I don't see it happening in the short term. I wish it were so that when people came to Canada they would leave their feelings aside, but it's not so. You know, one of the members of our group, John Bruk, is originally from Yugoslavia. He brought his family here many years ago. His brother, who is a very talented engineer, I think retired now, his brother for many years, had a very close friendship with another group of Yugoslavians; they used to play Bridge 2 or 3 times a week.
By the way, I should point out, when you say our group you mean our discussion group?
Our discussion group, yes, right. And when all the trouble started in Yugoslavia, the 4 guys who were playing Bridge and had become very close friends ceased talking to each other; because one was a Croat, one was a Serb, one was a Muslim, one was a something else. I mean, suddenly this terribly hatred from the old country permeated their lives here.
Well maybe we should end up with the hope that if Canada can mean something. It should mean that people who come here?
