Keith: Hi, we are here with David and Jill to discuss a couple stories-actually three stories-today: "Sea Devil," "Alicia," and "A Mountain Journey." We'll start with "Sea Devil" today, and the focus is on the conflict that's in "Sea Devil," what little there is of it. But first, let's just do a quick summary of what the story is about on the surface. On the surface, "Sea Devil" is simply about a man who takes enjoyment in going out in the evening and fishing using a cast net. He lives on the Florida coast, the weather is warm. "Heavy hand of summer" is one of the lines that refers to the sitting. It is simply a man going fishing on the surface, but there is a lot more to it than just a man going fishing.
The first question I'd like to ask David and Jill is: Why do you think the author set the story at night versus going out during the day to go fishing? David: I believe this chap doesn't have to fish, it's mentioned that it's not his forte or his vocation. He does this because he wants to. Why he does it at night-I never considered that. You're presenting something out of the elements. There's a temporal-the timing is wrong. He's in an element that is not his own element, because he's not a fisherman by trade. I'm grasping at straws here, because I never really considered it. He's in over his head figuratively and literally in this story, and-I don't know. Jill, do you have any notions why it takes place in the evening?
Jill: The only reason I can think of is that it just makes it all a little bit more mysterious and frightening because it's at night, and you can't see what's going on, and-yeah, that's about it. Keith: I think the passage that best alludes to the reasons why he went out at night, it reads, "He liked all that, because he found in it a reality that seemed to be missing from his twentieth century job and from his daily life. He liked being the hunter, skilled and solitary and elementary. There was no conscious cruelty in the way he felt. It was the way things had been in the beginning." Now, by setting it at night, you're back to basics. In nighttime, there's no visuals. It's a clean slate. He's going back to basics. He likes the solitary element of the nighttime setting.
David: And how far back to basics does he go? There's a line in it that I love, we're seeing a guy who is-he's not necessarily rejecting contemporary life, but he seems to be looking for something that is not offered in contemporary life. Reading it, I'm seeing this person go further and further back, and there's allusions to it-the first hunter-gatherers. There's a line here, he says, "He made sure his feet were planted solidly. Then he waited, feeling the tension that is older than the human race. The fierce exhilaration of the hunter at the moment of the ambush, the atavistic desire to capture and kill and ultimately consume." He's finding something that we've lost. Where does meat come from? It doesn't come from cows, it comes from Safeway. That's the kind of thing-where do fish come from? They come from the fishmonger. That's what I really loved about this story, so when you talk about going back, I really identify with that. Keith: Good, I think we got the reason why the author set the story at night rather than the day. The next question I'd like to ask is: There are a number of different conflicts, two sort of stand out. What might those two conflicts be? Jill?
Jill: I guess the most obvious one would be man against nature, because the ocean and the sea life is much more powerful than him. I guess the other conflict is him against himself, I'll let David talk about that. David: The question was conflicts-if there were two, there might be twenty in here. The classic man versus fish, you know? Which was made famous by Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea." I was remarking to Keith that it's a secularized "The Old Man and the Sea." As we talked about, a very grounded man, surface man, something of the "caveman" type of man wrestling with a fish. So we have man versus nature, man versus fish-I'm not sure what the other one is, it's probably above me. I can't quite get it. It has something to do with perhaps the self and what he's doing. I don't know, Keith, can you help out? Keith: Basically, to me in reading this story, definitely the major conflict is man versus nature, man versus fish. But also, and it goes back to the reasons why he is fishing in the first place. He has inner conflict, he's trying to regain something that he feels is missing in himself. It's almost man versus something that is missing. [laughter] He's missing something in his life, and the challenge or conflict is how to get it back, or regain that basic need to connect with nature. David: How did you categorize that? Would you call that "man against himself"? Keith: Yeah. It's a "man against himself" story, but it's not a classic man against himself. Rather than fighting inner demons, he's fighting to regain something. The conflict is not what is causing problems within him, but what is missing. What it is he's trying to regain in himself. David: There's a line at the end-I think it's actually hard to choose who wins when it's a man against himself, but I think in this sense, he wins. He wins literally, and at the end, it says, "Calm and serene, it sailed, symbol of man's proud mastery over nature." I think it's mastery over nature, and mastery over himself, that through this struggle, through this atavistic struggle, he found something beautiful and wonderful in his life. He found it out there. He may not go out there again at night, and he may not have to. This may be one of the greatest moments of his life, and I think he really found something that was missing in life-a genuine challenge and a feeling of being at one with nature and getting back to the pasture, I guess, in a sense.
Keith: My next question is-and I'm going to get Jill to answer this one-how is this story a comment on male behavior, or is it a comment on male behavior? David: I think he interpreted it as something really important. Women don't seem to do those things. Men will take apart a car and work on it for three years. Women will say, "Just buy a new one." Jill: True, that's true. Keith: I'll ask it in a different way. Now, David and I can identify with a lot of the elements in it. As some might say, going out fishing in the middle of the night in a skiff is a really stupid thing to do, but David and I are going, "Yeah, sure, giddy up, let's do that, that sounds like fun." How is this story a comment on male behavior? Is this a reflection of typical male behavior? When I say that, do men do stupid things out of innate need, or is this guy out of the ordinary? Is he doing something that's beyond what most men do? Jill: No, I think he is doing what most men do. I know a lot of guys, and they all seem to do things that are illogical, or stupid, or dangerous. They know it, but that doesn't matter. They want the challenge or the excitement, or whatever it is, and that kind of outweighs any kind of security issues or health issues. I don't know, I think men in general tend to have probably more-I'm probably overgeneralizing here-but I'd say a little bit more of an adventurous quality to them than women. Maybe that has to do with the fact that most women are more maternal, naturally, which is, you know, you need to take care of yourself and you need to be there for your family.
Keith: I just want to ask you quickly-I think you partially answered it-but why? Why is this so common? Do you have any comment, Jill?
Jill: Male chemistry is haywire, that's all I can say. You are just born that way and you cannot help it. I don't know, honestly. I don't know what else to say. Keith: Well, we'll wrap up this segment by just asking both of you: What did you like or dislike about this story? Jill: I liked the whole story. It was exciting, and it kept me wanting to read. It held my attention, I wanted to keep reading, and you never really knew until the very end whether he was going to live or die, so you wanted to keep reading to find out.
David: Yeah, absolutely. It was a tight story, a quick read, it was well written, and it was a great story, and I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Keith: A boy and his fish. Okay.
