#35 Interracial Marriage

Actually what I wanted to talk to -- ask you about, I guess, is, your, I guess, your sort of Japanese experience… when did you go over there, why did you go over there?

Oh! I was. I went over there because I met my wife in Hawaii and we'd been going out, and there was a little bit of stress between her family and me because I wasn't Japanese. You were living in Hawaii? Or... Yeah. Ok.

So I met my wife there and there was a bit of stress between her family and I because I wasn't Japanese. And so I went there to try to make things a little bit better.

How long were you dating?

Oh, probably six months or so.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sorry whenever I think of Hawaii, I think of vacation, I'm thinking, you've been dating for two weeks and. No, no, I was born in Hawaii, and so I… and I went back there to live for a few years, and so we're there, and she was in school while I was working, so. There's obviously big differences between Japanese society and North American society, you know, for example I'm an entrepreneur, and you know like when I was seventeen, I was selling stuff door to door and when I was nineteen I had my own window cleaning company and in Japan, that's not widely respected, somebody doing things on their own. Right? What's widely respected is working for a big company. And so, so there's big differences culturally, so that caused a lot of stress between her family and me because they felt that she wasn't -- that I wasn't the best person for her, but she felt otherwise. Uh huh.

And so, in Japan, people.

How long were you over there, then?

Oh, probably a few weeks the first time.

Okay.

So I was over there for a few weeks the first time. Now it's quite interesting because I went over there and it's quite expensive in Japan and I thought I would just stay at capsule hotels or something like that instead of regular hotels. --How old are you at this point?

Probably 24.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so there's, ah, I went over, I went over there, and I met some people who taught English, and because there was a lot of stress between her family and I, I didn't stay at their house, obviously, and so all of these people who spoke English, I mean who taught English there, just kind of like kidnapped me. And like, ah, I think that they were so starved for good … , for somebody new to talk to, that they all kind of took me in, and they wouldn't let me stay at a hotel, and they just took care of me, and it was, it was really interesting, because they understood the cultural differences, and I think in Japan, when people aren't interested in continuing a relationship with somebody, they may try to get somebody else to take the blame, their family or something, to make up a story. So it was a little bit confusing, because I didn't quite understand if my wife didn't want to see me anymore, or if it truly was her family that was being difficult. So because in a Japanese culture people aren't very direct usually, so it was a little bit difficult figuring that out. Yeah, that must have worried you, obviously?

Ah, I didn't really care because I kind of felt that what my wife was telling me was the truth and so it sounded like she was in a bit of a complicated situation, so I just wanted to kind of support her in that, so. What about language at the time? Did your wife speak English?

Oh yeah.

Oh, okay I didn't know she did when you first met. Well she was, she was learning English, but one thing I didn't understand about Japanese people is that they, they often say, "Ah, yes yes" which is, like, in Japanese, people say "Ahsoka", which doesn't even mean that they understand what you're saying. All it means is that they acknowledge that you're saying something. You know, so, a lot of times people in North America think that Japanese people understand what they really mean when they don't. They're just being polite and they're just, you know, that's the way, the way it is, a lot of times in Japan, people have relationships of…they're always subordinate and I don't know what the other word is for the opposite of subordinate. But subordinate and superior, or whatever.

That sempai/kohai thing there.

Exactly, yeah! And so that always happens. Every time you're with somebody and it doesn't necessarily have to be a person older or younger, just more experienced, so if Japanese people tend to show respect for people who is a sempai, and, a lot of times you'll notice people in bars or clubs, you'll see a younger person with an older person and the younger person is just sitting there nodding their heads saying "yes" and the older person is just yakking on and on and on and on and the younger person is just showing respect and they're being a good kohai and they're listening and the older person is just talking away like there is no tomorrow, and we don't have that kind of system here… unless it's a special circumstance. So a lot of times when you're relating to somebody who's from Japan, you may think that they understand everything you're saying because they're being polite - -- Um hmm - -- and they're falling into a sempai/kohai kind of relationship with you because they're trying to learn English, and - -- and this, sort of, in effect, was going on with you and your wife? Or no?

Well, that would happen sometimes, but pretty much with anybody, you know. So a lot of the people that I was meeting that were Japanese were I thought they totally understood everything I was talking about!

Just saying "Yes, yes." Yeah!

Yeah totally. And so it was very, it was a bit confusing for me, because I thought that people completely understood what I said, and they didn't. And so…so I think it's more…I realize it's more important to understand what people are truly meaning, as opposed to what they're saying when you're dealing with people from Japan because more of the responsibility is placed upon the individual to understand what other people want as opposed to the responsibility being placed upon yourself to tell people what you want. Um hmm.

So it's kind of rude to say what you want in Japanese society. It's more important to try to figure out what everybody else wants and kind of go along with it. How did that sort of situation resolve itself then? With the parents? I'm assuming that eventually you must have smoothed things over somewhat? With my wife?

With your, well, with your wife's parents, sorry. Oh, no. No, that never resolved. Um, to, well, I mean, we're okay with the way it is, but we don't communicate with my wife's mother, and her father has passed away. Her father probably would have approved of the situation, but he wasn't alive when we met. So… but anyways, so that's … that happens sometimes with different people in cross-cultural marriage situations. Happens with people of the same culture too.

Lots of people don't talk to their own parents, let alone the wife's parents, but - -- Yeah. That obviously affected your decision to, obviously, well I can't see yourself living in Japan? Well, I'd like to live in my Japan… in Japan … my wife doesn't want to. She's Japanese - she doesn't want to live there. I'd like to live there 'cause everybody's so friendly and the food is really good and, and if you're a foreigner and you're in Japan and you're the kind of person who, you know, likes to talk with people, or likes to ask people questions, you could be very popular there, because there's lots of people that want to practice their English, and so, you know, I mean, as a foreigner living in Japan, there's a lot of pluses, so, you know … but if you're Japanese and you're living in Japan, apparently there's a lot of rules, but -- Is, is that why your wife doesn't want to live there, or is it, she's happier over here? Well I'd say that for a Japanese person, life in North America is a lot better than in Japan. You know, if you've got the courage to kind of step out and learn a new culture. You know, but if a lot of Japanese people are uncomfortable trying something different …. kind of easy to understand why, but How's the homestead treating you? The, homestead?

Yeah.

What do you mean?

Well, just your house, I've -- I saw your house a couple years ago. You're still in the same house? Oh yeah! Yeah, no, that's good. We've got a nice home, two kids, and our kids are speaking Japanese primarily, and English secondarily, and my wife believes that it's, fine for them to speak mostly Japanese as young children because as soon as they hit school, they'll pick up English quick, and as you know, in Japanese, it's a lot of ideas, like there's Chinese characters, and then there's, ah, Ramaji, which are, like the same letters we use, and Katakana, which is letters used to describe foreign words, and Hiragana, which is a Japanese phonetic language, and, ah, so a lot of Japanese are … communication and language is a connection of ideas, as opposed to a series of words. Uh huh.

And so, sometimes when my kids are speaking English, it sounds a little bit disconnected because I think in Japanese almost all the stuff is disconnected and you have to really try to interpret what a person means, as opposed to listening to exactly what they're saying. Uh huh.

And I know that my wife had mentioned to me that a lot of computer manuals and stuff like that for Japanese people are easier to read in English because it's a more specific language as opposed to a series of ideas connected. Now I see what you're saying. So, for me it's a little bit embarrassing sometimes if somebody I don't know is listening to my kids talk because they … sometimes my kids will say…my daughter Aya will sometimes say something like "Daddy, bring it to me - a surprise," -- Right - -- you know, instead of, you know, saying -- Most of the languages are sort of built that way. Oh are they?

I mean a lot… like India, and all --.

-- Oh really? - -- Pakistan, all those -- you know, the hat on the table is - -- Oh, okay - -- you know, with the flipped sort of order. Oh, yeah! Yeah!

For sure. For sure. And I think that in terms of languages, English is a little bit screwed up compared to most languages I mean I don't know what … I hear it's hard to learn, but -- uh huh -- So um, but anyway, so yeah, so that's a bit of a challenge sometimes. How old are they?

Four, and one.

So not really outside the house too much yet?

Oh yeah! They go to preschool. Well one of them's in preschool for the last 2 years, and… -- That's not helping with the English? Well, they … she speaks English pretty well, but not as well as a regular four year old would.

Um hmm.

You know she speaks Japanese much better than most Japanese four year olds.

Um hmm.

And so, as a consequence though, sometimes when we're in the car, and they're talking, I have no idea what's going on you know, so that's -- And you just say "Yes yes"? -- Oh, I try to, but it gets to be a bit of a drag sometimes, so uh… I highly encourage somebody who ends up marrying somebody who speaks a different language to try to make sure that they at least understand what's going on most of the time because it can get pretty lonely if you're driving and you have no idea what everybody's talking about and you're just -- I can see that. Yeah.

I think a lot of dads kind of tone stuff out though, so I suppose I should just learn to tone things out.

That's funny. Well thanks a lot!

Okay!

And good luck at the driving range here!

Yeah!