Keith: We'll discuss, now, conflict in a story. Now, conflict is pretty much universal through any story. I cannot identify an instance where a story or, whether it be novel or whether it be short story or whether it be movie, that there isn't some type of conflict. I mean, it is the hinge on which a story opens and closes. Now, conflicts. What sort of conflicts do you like in the reading that you do? Do you like mano a mano, do you like internal torment, a person battling with their own personal demons? Do you like man versus nature, do you like-The list is long, but what in your reading history have you seen as your favorite type of conflict?
Jill: Well, I'm pretty simple, and I like pretty much man versus man [laughter] where you know you have, like I mentioned before, you have a character and there's somebody trying to keep that character from achieving his goal, and usually the good guy wins in the end, and that's sort of what I like. David: I agree. I like sort of a simple conflict, something that's easily defined, if it's a man versus a man or a man versus an organization. But I sort of like a combination of the two. I like to see a man or a woman up against some grand problem, group of people or an organization, and there's something within that person that they need to struggle with-what you said, struggling with their demons or their soul or something to rise, so there's a combination of that. I mean, if you have one man versus an organization, you have Rambo. If you have a character who's flawed and needs to wrestle within themselves to find some quality in themselves that will do the impossible, to bring this man to win victory over impossible odds, that to me is really exciting. And when you begin reading a story like that, you know it's impossible. You know it can't happen. Because you can identify with this character, you can identify with the plight of this character, and then you see what happens. There's something that happens in this character where he-where she finds something within themselves, somehow, that you can't imagine, but it's there on the page. And that, to me, is the most thrilling conflict.
Keith: In recent history, I think one of my favorite conflict stories was actually a movie, The Insider. Russell Crowe acted in the picture as the ex-cigarette company executive or scientist who ratted out one of the big companies. To me, that was a fabulous story. Other stories that I personally like are man against thing, [laughter] the environment, beating all odds. Actually, it's not a story, but one of my favorites was actually a documentary of two Canadian pilots who had to fly into the South Pole to extricate somebody who was dying from cancer, yeah, the woman doctor. The conflict there, it was "they against the elements," and they overcame something which nobody believed was even possible at all. So mano a mano or man against man, woman against woman, I do enjoy that type of show, but I quite like something against nature, especially in true stories; nature is unpredictable and you never really know what is there.
David: One of the classic conflicts is, of course, man against nature, and I always sort of pooh-poohed that notion, because how frightening can such a conflict be? But I would say the best short story I've ever read in my life, and it's also considered one of the best short stories ever written, is "The Open Boat" by Stephen Crane, which talks about a simple group of men in a boat attempting to get to shore, and it is the most fundamental story about man against nature. Men using their muscles and their strength and their intellect against nature, which will always win, but that's what makes this story so fascinating, because they do-They're just victorious in the end. Keith: Here's a thought with regards to pop culture's most recent contribution to conflict stories: the new TV show, or actually a couple years old now, Survivor. There's two conflicts there-what are they and how did they combine them to make this the "darling" of TV that it has become? David: Well, the premise is actually a brilliant, beautiful, simple premise: you have the essence of man against man, or man against woman, woman against man, fighting and conspiring against each other in the most primeval way, and in addition to that you have the fight against nature. I don't watch it, but when I heard-the fact that I know of it-I do think it's just a marvelous premise. Jill: That's exactly what I would have said. [laughter] Keith: I should have handed it to you first. [laughter] Jill: No, that's ok.
