#226 Tom and Steve Talk about the US Election

Steve:  Hi Tom.

Tom:    Hi Steve.

Steve:    You haven't left yet? Tom:    No. Is it time for me to go? Are you going to boot me out, sir?

Steve:    Well you know what they say, a house guest and fish smell after three… Tom:    …a couple of days. Yeah, that's right. So I'm waiting for you to feed me and then maybe I'll leave. Steve:    Alright.

Tom:    Okay.

Steve:    Listen… Tom:    Yeah? Steve:    …one thing we can talk about is the American election. Did you see the debate between Joseph Biden and Sarah Palin?

Tom:    No, I just saw Palin. After that I didn't give a rat's ass; I don't care. I mean she's not bad to look at, you know? Steve:    Yeah.

Tom:    Now whether she's…what are these goofy words I hear? Lipstick and a few other things that are…we don't want to hear those things? Maybe you can explain that to me because I don't get it. Steve:    I must say, you know, I'm not an American, we're not Americans, we don't vote down there. So I watch these different candidates and when I first listened to Joe Biden at the Democratic Party Convention I thought he sounded like a typical, you know, we don't want to be impolite, but a greasy politician, you know, trying to say all the nice things; lots of words flowing out, not much substance. But, whether it was because he performed so well or because Sarah Palin sounded so stunned, I have never seen what seemed to me an unequal debate.

Tom:    And, again, it just strikes me that you get up there and I'm supposed to look pretty and sound smart; it just didn't go together. So, you know, I'm talking about Biden here, okay? And Palin wasn't bad either, you know? Steve:    Yeah.

Tom:    You know a lot of people are saying that they watched that over the Canadian one, which, you know, sounds more like the Canadian Air Force; the Canadian debate.

Steve:    I didn't watch the Canadian debate; I didn't even know it was on. Tom:    Okay.

Well, it wasn't. Steve:    Apparently it was not a good spectacle.

Tom:    No, spectacle is more like it. Harper got totally hammered, but he came out alright. But the other one, apparently…even my wife, who is not into politics, sort of says “I enjoyed that.”  I think it meant that she enjoyed listening to Palin. I would have enjoyed just watching her, you know? I could have turned the sound off and got as much out of it, you know?

Steve:    But I think the Canadian format was ridiculous. I mean five people, four opposition parties and one governing party. Well, of course, the four opposition party representatives are just going to spend their whole time attacking the one guy. It was a bad format.

Tom:    I just don't understand that. I mean is that your platform? You're going to attack your opponent? You've got nothing to offer Canadians? Are we just looking for a pitch battle here, for a street fight? I understand that one of them, the girl from the Green Party there… Steve:    May (person's name), yeah. Tom:    …her French was pretty green. So, ah… Steve:    I didn't hear. Was her French pretty bad?

Tom:    Apparently, but... Steve:    We should point out that these debates, there's one in English and one in French. In French, obviously, Duceppe being French-speaking has the big advantage.

Tom:    Oh yeah.

Steve:    But I think even Harper and Layton don't do too badly in French. Tom:    They don't. Leighton sounds like the goody two-shoes, you know, the Boy Scout and he's going to save the world and who's going to pay for it; that's the whole ticket. Steve:    Right.

Tom:    But let's go back to the American debate. Steve:    And, of course, Dion,  I forgot. He's also a native speaker of French, so he has an advantage in French. But  Dion has a big disadvantage in English because he sounds so bad.

Tom:    He sounds terrible and he's typically French when he gets all emotional. You know his voice goes up and he sounds like he's being squeezed. I'm not sure that's the type of guy I want in the government because he's going to get squeezed a lot and I don't want to hear some 18 year old in front of the microphone, you know? That's not going to do good so, you know, we're down to…I think what we're left with in Canada is a one-party system, you know? That's pretty crappy to begin with, so…  And did you hear Harper is taking all this money away from the entertainment and from the arts? Steve:    Oh, the arts, yeah?

Tom:    Left a few people not too, too happy, so… Steve:    But that whole thing is ridiculous. I mean I was reading in the paper, the government spends $3 billion on the arts. He has eliminated $45 million, so he has eliminated about two percent of the expenditure on the arts.

Tom:    Yeah.

And, you know, I'm not into that game even though I'm a bit of an entertainer myself when I teach. The entertainment or the arts covers a wide-swath, so we can't think of just people who are in the author business and the…everything from translators to clerks and so on. These are all… Steve:    Well that was where these people whose government subsidies got cutoff were saying that the arts industry represents $86 billion, but they're including the advertising industry, they're including the person who takes you ticket at the theatre. Tom:    Totally.

Steve:    I mean the whole thing is ridiculous. What really got me annoyed is that some of these artists were demonstrating in Quebec and they had placards with the swastika there as if the government was equivalent to Hitler because they'd taken away their subsidy. Tom:    Is that their art form?

Steve:    Anyway, leaving that… Tom:    Yeah. Steve:    …getting back to Biden and Palin. What was nice there is it was two people and I think, unfortunately, in Canada because we have five parties they all have the right to be in on the debate, but it basically ruins it; with two people you have more of a debate. What I didn't like in the American debate, they kept on talking…they were sort of making these accusations and counter-accusations, which the average person has no idea who's right. Like, you know, “Obama voted 96 times this way and McCain voted that way.”  I don't know if that's true or not. And then they say “No, no, that's not true.”  They weren't talking about ideas, they weren't talking about principles. They seemed to be taking turns sort of taking jabs at each other and then the other person would say “No, that's not true.”  Substance-wise it was not like…. Tom:    It's un-relatable because these people are listening to statistics and to facts sort of “not in evidence”, so they don't know what is. I've never been a big fan of these debates where they hammer each other. How about we come up with what we're going to do and how it's going to benefit you? These debates are a way of selling.

Steve:    But, no, it seems to be…you have to assume that the people who are in politics are not completely stupid, but they certainly seem to put more effort into knocking the other guy than in presenting their own ideas. There was a Canadian politician -- I think it was Kim Campbell -- who said that an election is no time to talk about the issues, alright?

Tom:    How long was she in office?

Steve:    I don't know. She wasn't in office for very long, but she was being a bit sarcastic. But the point is that I guess experience has shown that talking about issues and presenting ideas doesn't win elections. Somehow, the more dirt you can throw at your opponent and make that dirt stick that that's what's going to help you win the election. Tom:    And make him and her bleed. I mean I just…unfortunately for us Canadians, American politics is far more interesting than our local Canadian politics and that's an unfortunate situation here in Canada. I'd be interested to see how many folks watched the American debates versus the Canadian debates. Steve:    Well, no, I heard a lot of people said they started out watching the Canadian debate and it was so stupid… Tom:    Because it was like a gang attack on Harper. Steve:    …so then they switched to the American debate. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens. I can't see Sarah Palin as President of the United States if something were to happen to John McCain. I don't know if I see John McCain, I don't know if I see Obama, I don't know if I see Biden as President either; I'm not impressed with any of the four candidates. But Palin, you know, I'm sure she's a very nice person, very sincere, very hard-working, very bright, but you have to have some background. And a snobbish thing, I'll be perfectly upfront, I'm snobbish. I think that when you're a leader of a country that when you refer to those two countries in the Middle East that it sounds better if you call them Iran and Iraq. Tom:    As opposed to Iraq and Iran. I ran into Iraq.

Steve:    It just sounds uneducated; it's totally unfair. Maybe there are lots of people who say Iran who are very highly-educated people, but to my mind it's a bit like wearing your tie off on an angle or having a dirty suit. Tom:    Redneck.

Steve:    It's redneck, it's less…I mean how difficult is it for her to learn to say Iran and Iraq? Because that's how it's said. Tom:    And what if she says that on a stage someplace where it needs to be said?

Steve:    Well, no-no-no, I mean I'm sure she would say that. If she met the leader of Iraq she would say, you know, nice to meet you. But I'm just saying that in terms of impressions; politics is a lot about impressions. We know that she is sort of a backwoods mama from Alaska. That part of it is okay, we understand that… Tom:    …it's a given. Steve:    But if you're trying to create the impression that you have some international smarts and sophistication, if you're trying to create that impression even if you don't have those smarts and that sophistication, at least…it's not a big thing, say Iran and Iraq. Tom:    Agreed.

Steve:    Small point, insignificant point, but it's part of impressions. Tom:    Well let me ask you, what do you think of Arnold Schwarzenegger as the Governor of California?

Steve:    Ah…I don't mind him, I think he is sincere. At first I thought it was a bit of a joke, but he seems to take…I don't know. I have no idea of the political issues, but the fact that he speaks with an Austrian accent doesn't bother me in the slightest. The fact that he is a former movie actor doesn't bother me in the slightest. Tom:    It's happened before. Steve:    It's happened before, yeah. Tom:    Okay.

Steve:    So, you know, I've only very superficial dealings with him. Occasionally there's a little something in the newspaper, but he doesn't bother me. Now if I lived there maybe I wouldn't like him, I don't know. Tom:    Are you aware that there's a movie made about McCain? Steve:    No.

Tom:    Yeah, something about Father…because McCain spent five years in Vietnam… Steve:    Right. Tom:    … in the Hanoi Hilton.

Steve:    Right.

Tom:    There was a movie made last year about his exploits in Vietnam when he was in the Hanoi Hilton. So I don't know if he's going to exploit that or not, but…  Do you think he's too old? Steve:    Yeah, I think he's too old. I cannot imagine…I will be 63 in two days.

Tom:    Hang on, let me write that down.

Steve:    Alright.

I cannot imagine…even at my age, I would not want to have to take on the responsibility of being President of the United States. I mean I think George Bush has aged tremendously in his eight years. At the age of 72 to take on that responsibility to me is…I just don't understand it. So from that perspective…and he's 72 now and he will be 76 at the end of his term. Tom:    So, let me flip that around, do you think Obama is too young?

Steve:    No, I don't think so. I think we're used to the idea nowadays that our leaders are older. I mean it was, you know, not so many centuries ago Alexander the Great was, whatever, 25, you know, Napoleon…  Not that those are models that we want right now today, you know, the warlord, but the point is that people took on lots of responsibility at an earlier age. I think 40, whatever he is, 47 is fine; I don't think that's a problem. Tom:    And also, of course, these guys are surrounded by well-known advisors who can help them, guide them, along their way.

Steve:    Right.

Tom:    So I don't think that's a problem. But interesting how American politics plays a lot better than Canadian politics.

Steve:    Well, it's more important for starters; it's more important. Canadian politics is important only to Canadians.

Tom:    Yes. Not even.

Steve:    Well, yeah. American policy might even be more important to us than Canadian politics.

Tom:    True.

Steve:    But I think that's where…  I must say -- I get back to my earlier comments -- I was actually quite impressed with Joe Biden in his debate with Sarah Palin. Maybe it was compared to her, but my first impression of him was not very favorable. I thought to myself that Obama made a mistake in not choosing Hilary as his running mate because Hilary, although I don't know how much integrity or honesty there is there, at least she has experience. I think that Obama…again, as an observer, the impression I get with Obama is that he talks a good story. You know he's a very, very good speaker, says all the right things, but is there any substance there. Biden looked like somebody with a certain amount of substance. Yeah, he's been a politician for 35 years, he sounds like a politician, but he also came across as being quite sincere. To me Obama doesn't come across as being sincere, so…  Maybe then, I thought to myself, okay, if I look at McCain's decision making in terms of choosing Palin as his running mate, then I look at Obama's decision, which I originally questioned, I now think maybe that wasn't such a bad decision. So maybe Obama is a smarter guy…not smart so much, but maybe he's a more astute potential president than I gave him credit for. Tom:    In addition to that, I think that if he would have chosen Hilary we would have had a power struggle at the top.

Steve:    Well, yeah, between Bill and… Tom:    So whom I sleeping with tonight? Steve:    So, anyway, I don't think we're about to get hired by ABC or CBS. Tom:    No, they haven't phoned me for my opinion at all. Steve:    Okay.

Tom:    (Phone rings). Oh, there they are. There's the phone call. Steve:    That could be them.

Tom:    It could be them.

Steve:    Okay, bye for now.

Tom:    Bye.